I carry a number of different calibers depending on what Im wearing that day and where I intend to go; but I no longer even own a 9mm. I know they dont keep records like this; but if you could count all the rounds fired in a battle, and how many kills were made by each caliber; would that not be a better indicator of the efficiency of the caliber. In the technical language of ballistics engineers, the standard unit of measurement for a bullets mass is grains of metal, and depending on the manufacturer, a .7.62. can weigh in at 125 grains. As I have read your comments and, also read many debates including what science says. hand guns to suit little feminine hands who shoots the Bad Guys with far less recoil and stopping power. Died instantly. So you better have the biggest heaviest bullet going down range that you can possibly get. The one that traveled the furthest was looking back over its shoulder and was hit in the muzzle. Physics says my 225 grain .45 ACP ,+P+ traveling at 1210 fps is more capable than ANY 9mm currently available. You're Dead: 5 Deadliest Bullets In The World They're just as important as the gun that fires them. A more accurate equation is (terminal) Energy, defined as 1/2 the mass times the velocity squared. John Michael Callahan served in law enforcement for 44 years. In most courtrooms today a good lawyer will take you apart for shooting a home invader more than one time if you hit him with the first shot in other words you wounded him with the first shot why did you keep shooting? Anyway, stay tuned we shall wait and see. WebThe Smith & Wesson Model 26 is a target style revolver chambered in .45 ACP. I do like the capacity of the 9mm for in town carry and lighter weight than my Govt model 45s. Thats funny. I have read how the 124gr 9mm ammo used by NATO does not do its intended job. A 35-45 psi .45 Actually killed to individual who I shot vs the others who all but one lived. Yes, Im another old Viet Nam Vet. While the classic .45 ACP round is large, its also relatively slow, with an average velocity of 850-900 FPS for most types of ammo. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for EVER! So Marines are now trained to simply kill them. Tissue disruption caused by a handgun bullet is limited to two mechanisms: There are two places that we know will incapacitate a man every time they are hit: the brain and the upper spinal column. I know .45 is a good SD round against the two legged threats. The difference Is not all soldiers are comfortable shooting the heavy recoiling 45 round. What I have found, is its a matter of preference. If you notice in Police shootings, the gun is usually empty after the event is over. It has a velocity of 1200-1600 ft/s and energy of 140-160 Joules. For damage; within 50m against soft targets I want to say it goes 7.62 >.45 > 9mm. Just happened to recall the powerful 10 auto cartridge. Not everyone is as capable or as comfortable at shooting a .45ACP as they are a 9mm. Im sure many hunters can attest to the expansion of rifle bullets recovered from their game. What we do know, however, is that when most people are shot, they fall down. In September 2014, LooserRounds posted an article titled FBI Training Division Justifies 9mm Caliber Selection. interacts online and researches product purchases I never had much faith in a 9mm til that incident. Of course, smoothly drawing a handgun leads directly to another subject: which holster is best for those concerned with personal protection? If the Government is involved in any way, money will change hands. Also another fact is that my Kimber Colt 45 actually has less recoil than my 9mm with an aluminum frame when my 9mm has a full steel from. The test results disclosed that the .45 round displaced an average of 4.22 cubic inches of tissue, the 10mm round 4.11 cubic inches and the 9mm round 2.82 cubic inches. 9mm Luger now offers select projectiles that are, under identical testing conditions, outperforming most premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI. As a civilian with a concealed carry permit, my rule is that I will carry the heaviest, store bought self defense round that I can buy. It scares the hell out of me to think I might have had to use a 9 mm. But I agree, I would LOVE to see more true American companies represented!! Shot placement is the deciding factor. Think of hitting a person in the chest with a broom handle, then picture striking the same spot with a 5 lb. Just how common are self-defense uses of firearms? CHEERS. I immediately thought, I think Ive been shot. Took about 1Min until the shock yielded to the pain. Mayo Clinic Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for The last time such a broad survey of gun ownership in America was done, long arms ruled the day and Americans were largely interested in weapons for hunting and other sporting uses. They are fine weapons and are certainly capable as a sidearm. How about some scientific caliber comparisons with the same type bullet and velocity range and most common weights. A .223 is just 55 grains. Either will get the job done for protection. The P227 Tacops holds 14 rounds in the mag and 1 in the chamber so 15 rounds is similar to the Glock. 45 guy and .357 mag lover . What i find interesting is that so many people have so much to say and they have never been in actual shoot out. Think the title of this article is misleading. I was in the military and was law enforcement. I carried a Colt 1911 while serving in Korea. Officer Needs Help!!! Now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new Gen5 Glock 17M. Another deputy acquired a .45 and was having trouble being able to qualify with it. Only high-velocity rounds (those with an impact velocity of 2,000 feet per second or more) with soft or hollow points reliably offer fragmentation. In this article, we will present what we believe to be the most credible information regarding wound ballistics from studies conducted by the FBIs Firearms Training Academy in legendary Quantico, Virginia. From my time in the USMC, I saw a certain population fall in love with the 9mm bc of its easier to handle recoil. I notice one parameter that seems to be ignored. Growing up in Alaska, I have shot more than a fair share of big game. Because head shots are rare and extremely difficult, and torso hits are likewise difficult and do not result in immediate incapacitation, choosing handgun bullets for officers is a critically important task. Some of the best handgun calibers for self defense are: To adequately understand the efficiency of incapacitating a target, we must have some basic understanding of the mechanics of wounding how damage to the human body works. Developed in the early 1960s, the .223 round was first used in Vietnam. Police, f.b.i., train. Sudden, immediate and even instant death. It doesnt get more damaging that that. Remember, people dont have health bars. One single shot from nea High-velocity Scalise, a Republican from Louisiana whose condition has been upgraded to serious, suffered broken bones, ruptured blood vessels, and shredded internal organs. Thats because the 7.62 is almost twice as massive as a .223. A .45 ACP will encounter greater resistance than a 9mm, but it also carries more weight, albeit at a slower velocity. Combat Medic's Advice: "Shoot the heaviest rifle roundshoot at For another 2+ years. When all else fails, when the rounds fail to stop the bad guy, then you need time on your side. In any event, I used that data when shopping for a lighter and more easily concealed EDC than my .357 magnum revolver and hi-cap .45 ACP. If you need to kill someone with a single shot, a rifle is what you need, not a handgun.. Also, the 9mm cartridges are less expensive. The bullet has far less weight and cross section than a .45 acp? The energy delivered to the target increases geometrically along with increases in mass, and exponentially with increases in velocity. The 45s power and bullet size vs. the 9 mm Luger round was The amount of energy a bullet radiates into a target is determined by a simple formula taught in high school: Its the product of one half the projectiles mass times the square of the velocity. Been hunting 49 years. Slow him down, double up, spin/alter his track-anything to allow you to get that second shot and the empty the clip. Physiology, Acid Base Balance Bullets can also increase the surface area that transfers energy to targets by expanding, as in the case of hollow-point rounds. I am a colt Gvt. The human body experiences four main types of acid-based disorders: metabolic acidosis, metabolic alkalosis, respiratory acidosis, and respiratory alkalosis. The results may surprise many as it did myself. I carry a 10auto. Everywhere else, you have only a chance of incapacitating your target. Not so with rifles with muzzle velocities of 2800-4000 fps, depending on the caliber. Yes, Alvin York killed seven Germans with seven rounds of .45 ACP ball, starting from almost 100m out, in front of superior officers who went out afterwards and kicked the dead Huns in the head before they made their reports. Leave it to a bunch of idiot Marines to bring a pistol to a rifle fight. While psychological factors incapacitate more assailants than physiological factors, they are also the primary reason for a failure to incapacitate. The difference Is not all soldiers are comfortable shooting the heavy recoiling 45 round. The double stack G19 is thicker. The threshold for lung damage occurs at about 15 psi blast overpressure. Just my thoughts and observations over the years. 45 stopping power! .45 Magazine type M1911 mag.45 ACP: Damage 1389 Blood: Fire modes Semi Shots to kill body: 3 head: 1 Effective range 50/100 m Rate of fire moderate Recoil Moderat Noise Moderate But this doesnt mean that a 22 rimfire is the best caliber or even a good choice for head shots. Which would put a bullet in the lower chest area with variance of the bullet which can be 2-3 or even 5-6. John I agree, the Browning Black Label in 380 ACP is a superb gun. The 45 1911 did just that. Should be Marine Commanders Have.. Each of the operators has his own preference. In a statement, the FBI said he used a modified an SKS , the predecessor to the AK-47 which shoots the same bullets. When they enter the body, they spread out into a star-shaped pattern that enhances the damage caused by the wound channel. This was not a good CC carry eather so for a while I did not carry CC. But, this little word but often comes up in real life. It seems to me to be better than the 9mm or the 45 acp If you take it in the field and get it dirty, see how easily serviceable that weapon is then. Been involved in violent life or death confrontations for well over 40 years. The point here is this: it is okay that the Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command has decided to issue only Glock 19's. The kidneys separate this material from the blood. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. Police, f.b.i., military have smaller people with smaller hands that need to be accomadated. Ben, enlightened folk like you (and myself) understand that politics is ALWAYS at play on some level!! Looks like a Chinese-made toy gun. pulverizing bones, tearing blood vessels and liquefying organs. She remembered one young man who was admitted to her emergency room with an abdominal wound from a hollow-point round. very obvious. You need to be a little more specific. .45 caliber merely refers to the diameter of the bullet. There are a large variety of cartridges that fire b Some bullets are so fast, they dont deliver the force of the bullet. Fired expert m14. Ask deerhunters. It is a very real possibility and one that should be considered. But you have to shoot the gun your most accurate with and most comfortable with but if you dont seat the grip of any pistol in the web of the hand deeply all guns no matter what the caliber the gun will whip in the hand. Among other things, this makes it ineffective against body armor. Thats just because most folks never have to shoot someone firing at them. I have never fired a .45 but rarely find the grips comfortable when I pick them up. Lets say it is winter and a large person is wearing very heavy clothing. The bullet that struck U.S. Representative Steve Scalise last week was traveling at somewhere between 1,100 and 2,600 feet per second. Until someone actually compares a 9mm of comparable bullet weight and charge to a 45 acp of the same I will continue in my retirement to carry my tried and true 45acp with a third more bullet weight and very similar penetration even with biased testing of much different bullet weights and charges. Its a freaking tarantula. What a joke! The one he found had the best chance was the .357 magnum. Is it comfortable for you to carry and shoot and are you accurate and reasonably quick in getting it from concealment to shooting? He gets there with his partner and the front door of the bus opens. True. The best gun is the one that is best in your hands not best someone elses hands. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet requires a minimum of 250 ft/s velocity to penetrate fresh human skin. We do, however, have reliable information from labs with regard to how much tissue rounds destroy. The deers shot with 9 ran and ran far compared to the short distance the 45 shot deer covered (100yds or less). I have not fired it yet but have dry fired it some to get back in tune. Though the patient survived and only had a small wound, he suffered extensive contusions throughout his lungs. The Smith & Wesson Model 26 is a target style revolver chambered in .45 ACP. style Tommy Gun For a bullet to be effective for law enforcement, it must be able to penetrate the body between 12 and 18 inches to reach large vital organs to cause rapid blood loss. The penetration of various materials can be of great assistance in the investigation of shooting incidents. 25 yard 1.52 off hand 5 rnd groups on the nose. 45 acp damage human body As mentioned in the article, the terminal ballistics of the modern 9mm is virtually the same as the .40S&W or the older .45ACP round but that is with modern 9mm JHP ammo. Why do I say that? The only other way to end an adversarys life-threatening action is through circulatory collapse. Unfortunately, there is no valid, scientific method of analyzing actual shooting incidents. Like John Saunders, I also used a M1D scoped. Now for long engagements that are seen more in military ops and where fire suppression matters most I prefer 9mm. That aside, its always been my impression with any pistol cartridge, that they dont achieve the velocity necessary for expansion. Rounds were literally ranked on the basis of temporary cavity volume, with penetration and permanent cavity ignored. Symptoms But good luck with and please enjoy the new Glock! Thanks for your comment! Because capacity equals TIME. We traded all the 9s some years ago for the 40 which give knockdown power plus multiple rounds. When a lot of agencies began switching to 9mm from .45 ACP and other heavier calibers, something became very apparent: the FMJ 9mm at high velocity tended Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. Were investigating how it spends its money. I have 9 mm and I own mostly 45 ACPs, I can conceal a combat Commander with a small of the back holster with shorts T-shirt and flip-flops and nobody will know its there. https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/, http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2015/07/08/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/, https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/, Victim Uses Awareness And a Gun to End Armed Attacker, S8E5: The Battle over Gun Registration & Assault Weapon Ban Rages On, Man Disarmed And Shot With Own Handgun in Parking Lot, Finally a Holster for the SIRT Pocket Pistol, Watch This Before You Shoot Your Pistol!! I also own both my fathers series 70 .45 (very accurate, low recoil due to mass, gunsmith tuned trigger that feels like butter, and extra fat grips) And a Kahr K40 (small, easy to conceal, but has a HORRENDOUS trigger pull and snappy recoil). The .9mm, took3 rounds to the chest and he never even paused. ago Haha. WebOP you had it right for penetration, 7.62 > 9mm > .45. In reaching this conclusion, the FBI appeared to give too little weight to the tissue-crushing ability of the larger projectiles (.40 S& W; .45 Auto). But a high-muzzle weapon shatters that bone into hundreds of microscopic pieces, in a way that cannot be repaired. I see your point. With a bone thats been shot with a standard-issue caliber handgun, youll see a break, a hole in the bone, and maybe some displacement. I owned a 9mm years ago and liked the gun, though the grip was too large for me due to the double stack magazine.
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