This increased demand is leading to more airlines offering higher pay, better bonuses, and more flexibility in order to recruit new pilots. I feel for each one of them. Like some of the other airlines on this list, Hawaiian Airlines also has a bonus plan in place for pilots that can lead to even higher earnings. All pilots at a particular company are permanently ranked according to their date of hire at that company. American said in a filing earlier this month that it expects its second-quarter capacity to be down 20% to 25% from 2019, while United Airlines estimated it will fly about 46% less and Delta . Once ALPA (as the pilots' representative) presented the integrated seniority list to US Airways and US Airways accepted it, if not sooner, those substantive rights materialized and were not, as USAPA would have it, a mere "tentative agreement between ALPA and US Airways on a bargaining proposal." (Doc. In addition to being a skilled professional that everyone looks up to and getting great benefits, you also earn a fantastic salary. Reveal contacts of top American Airlines managers and employees. Pilot groups from three pre-merger airlines American, America West and US Airways made presentations to the board. Comments made in response to posts are not provided or commissioned nor have they been reviewed, approved, or otherwise endorsed by any bank. Lets start with how much airline pilots make as profession across the board. American Airlines pilots earn an average salary of $118,000, with some pilots earning in excess of $700,000. United Airlines also has a bonus plan to provide the opportunity for additional compensation to employees who meet their criteria. Not assimilated properly after merger. Many of them report earning up to an additional $17,500 annually from these additional forms of compensation. This page last updated: April 4, 2021 (Quicktake). I am still saddened by the demise of TWA. Advertiser Disclosure: Many (but not all) of the credit card offers on the site are from banks from which we receive compensation if you are approved. Union member rights and officer responsibilities under the LMRDA, TWU International President John Samuelsen, Safety and Heath Committee August, 2019, Tentative Agreements: (as of November 16, 2017), American Airlines Service Center at Fidelity, AA Safety/EthicsPoint Helpline at 1-877-422-3844. "American Airlines' Number of Pilots from 2013 to 2021*. Newer pilots with less experience can expect an average annual pay of $78,500. Just because TWA was acquired by AA should not change things. Their most experienced pilots can expect to make an average of $208,600 annually. Charlotte, NC (KCLT) Chicago, IL (KORD) Dallas, TX (KDFW) Los Angeles, CA (KLAX) Miami, FL (KMIA) New York, NY (KJFK) Philadelphia, PA (KPHL) Phoenix, AZ (KPHX) Callsign Name Join Date; . 11. The plane you mentioned is a combination of 2 totally different ones. You dont get it. All three had better relative seniority under Tuesdays award than they did under the Nicolau award. They lost the commitments theyd received a decade earlier, and took their case to arbitration which they thought would restore their seniority and they expected the union to fight for this. Inspector Seniority List, click here. We have been contacted by major union legal teams regarding this issue. A final ruling by an arbitration panel will open the door to integrating American Airlines' 15,000 pilots into a single seniority list. All logos, images, and trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. Copyright 2005-2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Like the other airlines weve covered so far, Southwest Airlines also has a bonus program for their pilots. As a Premium user you get access to the detailed source references and background information about this statistic. statistic alerts) please log in with your personal account. If you start at 65 and work backwards to your current age, you'll realize why you should choose your employer as early as possible. 11. Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel -- a topic he has covered since 2002. Senior First Officer. Well also go over how much each the major United States based airlines pay their pilots so you an compare them for yourself. Many issues were discussed, and among the suggestions made by Air India management was that of having a single-simplified salary structure based on the scope of operations for the pilots of the merged airline. To quote USAPA: "The Nicolau award would place an America West first officer born in 1971 with 1.5 . U.S. Airways CEO Doug Parker, right, and American Airlines CEO Tom Horton pose in February 2013 [+] after announcing the planned merger of American and US Airways. WestJet is also another airlines that pays their employees bonuses and profit sharing. Being an airline pilot is one of the most admired jobs one can have. (Son of a 21 year TWA Passenger Relations Rep.). And at the time the only aircraft not in common was the 717 .The 767 ,757 and MD80s all had commonality type ratings so that would have eased $$$ for training. Those who wish to travel business class or above must pay an additional fee, based on their itinerary. AA was under no obligation to hire the TWA pilots, but they did. Headquartered in Fort Worth, Texas, near Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, the Allied Pilots Association (APA) serves as the certified collective bargaining agent for the 15,000 professional pilots who fly for American Airlines. Thankfully he retired in 1986 before the demise of the only great airline there ever was. (3) TWA was not a bankrupt airline at the time of the American Airlines merger. Night owls wanted. Experienced pilots (Captains) at Alaskan Airlines can expect to earn much more $238,400 on average. We will be coming back. (AP Photo/LM Otero), Edisons Solar Power Prediction, Elon Musks $100 Billion Loss And Green Gas From Landfills, The Pandemic Has Changed The Supply Chain Management Profession Forever, Greener Industrial Chemicals, EV Fleet Challenges And Teslas Record Deliveries, Grid And Charging Speed Bumps Ahead As Amazon, FedEx And Transit Fleets Go Electric, Gatik Goes Driverless In Canada For Grocery Giant Loblaws, Why Dont You Have A Self-Driving Car Yet? For example, if one is a narrow-body first officer holding a line flying domestic legs with TWeTh off, you are supposed be put at a location in the seniority list where those factors remain the same. To whoever posted u.k airlines treat their employees well you have NO clue!!!!!!!! We have been contacted by major union legal . Access to this and all other statistics on 80,000 topics from, Show sources information Not a commercial website. Delta - Seniority List - I noticed a pilot who was ATLM88B on the Jan 2020 list, removed from the list for 11 months (Feb 2020 through Dec 2020), then back on the list Jan 2021 as NBCPLAB, then SLC320B Feb 2021. . (Photo by Stella Shon/The Points Guy) Whether you're a pilot, flight attendant, gate agent or even an intern, you may have standby travel privileges that get you free flights on the airline you're working for and (potentially) on partner airlines. They were given unfair rulings by the Courts as well. \8E0^wa)w3>BBCJn2]m'-sWxIIY..`ed1M6r,bFpHV Pn":,,mH'-^xY- Most major airlines are in negotiations at this time, and many are contentious. This applies to ANY wildcat actions, including slowdown, work-to-rules, withdrawal of enthusiasm (WOE), sickouts, etc. Im hurt and disgusted to read about the unfair treatment of the former TWA Pilots. TWA was in bankruptcy. Over time, the panel noted, former America West pilots will have the opportunity to fill the jobs vacated by retiring east pilots. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty. This can range anywhere from $2,500 to $15,000 per year. <> Mandatory Retirements (Based on pilots turning 65 in the given year) 2020 - 323 2021 - 542 2022 - 624 2023 - 828 2024 - 911 2025 - 941 2026 - 904 2027 - 772 2028 - 688 2029 - 647 2030 - 568 2031 - 584 2032 - 523 2033 - 498 2034 - 435 2035 - 395 2036 - 307 2037 - 256 2038 - 267 2039 - 248 2040 - 255 As for as comments that airlines operate outside labor laws, that is totally incorrect. TWA pilots, coming from an airline which had entered into bankruptcy as part of its acquisition by American lost their seniority when they became American Airlines pilots. TWA gave them more than a fair shake, placing their Captains in the left seat rather than upgrading TWA co-pilots who were many years/numbers senior. American Airlines also has very generous programs in place for additional pay for their pilots. One example is airlines working to put together multi-year programs to recruit, hire, and train new pilots by going outside the box and working with local flight schools and even setting up their own flight schools. Use Ask Statista Research Service. Enhanced seniority, guaranteed final interview and access to pilot mentors are just a few of the upgrades students can receive by joining the SkyWest Pilot Pathway Program on their way to becoming one of SkyWest's professional pilots. Co-founder of frequent flyer community InsideFlyer.com, emcee of the Freddie Awards, and named one of the "World's Top Travel Experts" by Conde' Nast Traveler (2010-Present) Gary has been a guest on most major news media, profiled in several top print publications, and published broadly on the topic of consumer loyalty. Sue them 4anything you can and ruin the reputation of American ! The wide range of airline pilot salaries is determined by many factors. American Airlines. For flight simulation purposes only. US Airways has an older pilot work force with greater seniority that would bump many United pilots out of their current cockpit seats if the two seniority lists were simply dovetailed. According to the most recent report from the US Bureau of Labor statistics, there is expected to be a 6% increase in the demand for airline pilots. For those who dont know, generally speaking, flight attendants are simply integrated by date of hire. Im sure those who knew TWA must really miss such an amazing carrier and remember the airline for its gratifying service. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Here's a link to our Advertiser Disclosure. AA acquired its assets in bankruptcy. This was not a merger. The state of aviation today in the United States is like a greyhound with wings. The top 10% of earner there can expect to earn an average salary of $247,000. Once you have that experience you can either move up the ranks making more money at Spirit or test the waters with one of the other airlines. 'e6SpgC+:gP0XpY%oU@P7)v 47Kg;4Rpv^u 4ap;khBpEd:8dEK&@`ef6a-n*}K!0-*u:1|)Uj|@3!f.ir^#5[#,"f9?Er;xxYe#6BWaAa+ABVf= Jumpseaters are limited to one (even if cabin has seats available) if your airline does not have an "unlimited jumpseat" reciprocal agreement. Also representing Envoy Ground School Instructors (GSIs) and Pilot Simulator Instructors (PSIs). To 1K Brad, I used the term merge but I knew they were aquired by AA. Goodbye to your reputation AA. I was an intern in JetBlue's headquarters in Long Island City, New York. But AA pilots did their brothers and sisters wrong. As soon as this statistic is updated, you will immediately be notified via e-mail. delta air lines pilot seniority list 01 nov 2002 snr snr plt emp skd ret snr snr plt emp skd ret nbr name date date date nbr name date date date 1 harding g l sloa 03 13 61 (02 22 61) (** ** **) 51 griffin w d 11 21 68 (09 03 68) (02 20 03) 2 sterling s a sloa 04 12 62 (03 26 62) (** ** **) 52 block e g 03 25 67 (08 29 66) (01 25 04) New book: Kenny Riley & Black Union Labor Power in Port of Charleston, after announcing the planned merger of American and US Airways. After several huge pay cuts, to save TWA we finally succumbed to the inevitable, bankrupcy! Envoy will be opening Phoenix (PHX) as a crew base . AMT Crew Chief List, click here. v. Allied Pilots Association et al. NEx".$ mx1>r)!w~ H&RL+\7pz E])84!+m>?7,/hJ~ H#`D{,:t+2MC9ji&4gn0 To access the Fleet & Domicile Seniority Analysis tool, click here. The average annual salary for a pilot at Delta Airlines is $173,785. You only have access to basic statistics. Pan American 1985: Pilots MEC elected to honor TWU picket line. You suck. endobj Together, the three groups include about 15,000 pilots. Its very sad. With seniority, you can transfer out of the company's smaller airplanes and move on to widebody airplanes that pay moreand have easier schedules. Another said A bunch of {legacy American} people hired after me are senior to me now, but Im not going to complain., This is a BETA experience. The top 10% of pilots can make as much as $250,000 annually while some pilots just starting out can make less than $70,000 per year. Gary Leff is one of the foremost experts in the field of miles, points, and frequent business travel - a topic he has covered since 2002. Wow. You can also reach us at (800) 573-1848. . Below is a list of the 13 largest airlines in the United States (and Canada) along with their salary and additional pay information. The captains faced a downgrade to first officer, though they were offered captain slots on legacy US Airways Embraer E-190s as part of the merging of pilot seniority across the two airlines, though this would mean moving or commuting. Frontier Airlines is another one of the airlines on the list that is a great place to gain experience but due to their size and profile pay a little less than some of the competitors. Virtual American is not associated with American Airlines or any of their affiliates. Average American Airlines Pilot yearly pay in the United States is approximately $144,888, which is 118% above the national average. Send me a copy: Photo: Bloomberg. Did he start with the props or the jets? Those conditions no longer apply, the panel said. The average annual salary for a pilot at American Airlines is $118,000. Or you could use your seniority to become a captain on a smaller airplane and enjoy the big raise. I8 years later I still have dreams about it. Weve put our information into an easy to read table for your convenience in addition to the write-up below. When employees join a union, its often not employees versus the company but some employees sacrificing for the benefit of other employees. Legacy American pilots had advocated integration on a "straight category and status basis," the panel said. The aviation industry has been especially hard. Union didnt help them one bit. Supposed to be. Business Solutions including all features. TWA was in bankruptcy and AA bought the assets they wanted and left those they didnt. endobj This holds with the trend we saw of smaller airlines, regional airlines, and those that cater to passengers on a tighter budget of paying their pilots slightly less than some of the larger national airlines. What the law did not do, was apply the DOH rule to the former TWA employees retroactively, or force the APA to recognize the pilots TWA DOH (except for pay longevity purposes) when AA and USAir/AmericaWest merged seniority lists in the 2014 AA Bankruptcy Again the TWA employees, who are now considered AA employees with date of hire given during the AA merger with TWA, got screwed by the very law that was enacted to protect them from further harm. The average annual salary for a pilot at United Airlines is $129,664. Such a great airline! Per the AA JCBA, updated Seniority Lists are posted twice per calendar year: April and October, or when an updated version is made available by the company. Even their less experienced pilots average annual earnings of $73,000. American Airlines Seniority List - Live on Jetnet.aa.com You can see the latest Seniority list on JetNet.aa.com. The most experienced pilots at WestJet can expect to make an average of $147,000 while pilots just starting their careers there can expect to make in the range of $64,500. The panel said it had weighted the new seniority list with 15% towards longevity and 85% towards the pilot's existing category and status with the airline. American Airlines United States employs 24576 employees. In the next section well look at the specifics of how much each airline pays. An arbitration panel handed down a ruling Tuesday that could finally integrate seniority lists for American Airlines and US Airways pilots following the carriers' 2013 merger, bringing an end to . There were complicated contractual language disagreements at issue, whether the protections TWA pilots had received a decade earlier were guaranteed until one named pilot would have reached the level of captain in the airlines regular system meant doing so on legacy American Airlines aircraft or whether those US Airways Embraer E-190 jets counted. Use a simple form to see your projected seniority based on specified growth rates and known attrition due to mandatory retirement. The seniority calculator allows you to explore how your seniority will evolve over time due to attrition and growth. They got a bump for many years and knew from the beginning that it would not be forever. Expecting a different outcome is not reasonable. Should check facts before he shoots his mouth off. ', U.S. Airlines Sell Schedules They Don't Really Plan To Operate, And Then Refuse Refunds, Middle Seat Passenger Eats Full Slab Of Ribs, Skin-On Fries And Half An Ear Of Corn, These American Airlines Status Members Will No Longer Speak To Dedicated Elite Phone Agents, Thursday Was A Tough Day For Southwest Airlines Labor Relations As Pilots And Cabin Crew Protest. Contact. There's one on the APA website updated monthly. If you are an admin, please authenticate by logging in again. Both the American and America West pilots advocated for the Nicolau award as the basis to integrate east and west pilots, but the arbitrators still rejected it. We did all this research to save you the time and hassle of doing it yourself. unfortunately they have merged with other airlines to make the whole United States aviation business a joke. To visit the real-world American Airlines web site, please go to: https://www.aa.com. 4 0 obj 12 were here. For anyone who has never flown an airplane, being a, Math is often a tough subject for a lot of, Which Airlines Pay Pilots The Most? Here are some of the factors that have the largest impact on how much an airline pilot earns: As you can see, there is a wide range of factors that affect pilot pay. At a Glance Pilots joined ALPA: 1995 (although Simmons had been an ALPA member since 1986, after the National Mediation Board's ruling that the four airlines serving American AirlinesExecutive, Flagship, Simmons, and Wings Westconstituted a single airline, the American Eagle pilots established a single MEC.) Either way, this article has you covered. The basis of the system is the seniority list. Vacations are also based on seniority. Currently, you are using a shared account. Someone will always feel cheated. (AP Photo/LM Otero). They also gave us passes and more or less equality to their own employees.THANK YOU AMERICAN! TWA became an American Company operated separately for 5 years the. The Grey Eagles - Senior and Retired American Airlines Pilots | Arlington TX Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts on your behalf. It never took effect because pilots from legacy US Airways comprised two thirds of the pilot workforce and were virulently opposed. The most recent case involves ex-TWA pilots suing both American Airlines and its pilots union arguing that they conspired to strip these pilots of their senior in the airline's 2011 bankruptcy. [Updated for 2023! Every summer, either June or July , can't remember exactly. Initial order of 75 a/c bought in the mid 90's. Greedy American Way! The purpose of The Grey Eagles is to maintain and continue the close. after 7 10 year furlough we only really work there 7 years out of the 20 years~ so there wasnt any inclusion with all number juggling. Required fields are marked *. A new pay scale was ratified by the APA BOD and is effective 5/2/17. By clicking the Send button, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy, and to the use of cookies described therein, and you also consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the United States where the level of data protection may be different from that in your country. Seniority Lists AMT Seniority List, click here. We offer the best vacation package in the regional industry, with starting hourly pay . Unfortunately, for me, I was extended in the military for 1 year after requesting my resignation. It was a planned bankruptcy to facilitate the merger and discharge Carl Ichans ticket sales interest in the operation. Most importantly, pilot salaries continue to increase. Not only does Southwest have a high average salary and high salary for those with the most seniority, they employees report being amongst the happiest of any airline. The best airline ever. it is SELECTIVE seniority. Some airline employees, speaking on condition of anonymity because they are worried about jeopardizing their jobs, said they found voluntary separation or similar packages a tough sell. business Airlines. They have not reviewed, approved or endorsed what I have to say. Pilot seniority numbers are used at both employers with pilot unions and employers without unions. . ? )k42I"ng[s',`R NEW YORK ( TheStreet) --The US Airline Pilots Association, chastened by an unfavorable U.S. Appeals Court ruling, said its merger committee will withdraw from negotiations intended to create a. Being an airline pilot is a rewarding career for many reasons. I am an ex twa employee.. God love are pilots. Definitely has a storied legacy in American aviation history. The union representing American Airlines pilots urged a Pennsylvania federal judge Friday not to certify a group of pilots trying to block the airline from implementing a new seniority list . After the captain, they are second in command of the aircraft. Part Two Outlines Some Social Problems, Investors And Buyers: Very Confusing Sustainability Choices In The Auto Industry, Phantom Auto Buys Voysys To Boost Remote Operation Capabilities. As a pilot who went through a merger, there is no way to merge seniority right. The best of the best: the portal for top lists & rankings: Strategy and business building for the data-driven economy: Industry-specific and extensively researched technical data (partially from exclusive partnerships). In 2014, the company name was changed from American Eagle to Envoy Air In a merger, such seniority is negotiated between the unions. Please note that all salary figures are . A flight engineer or second officer wears two stripes, a first officer wears three stripes on their pilot uniform and a captain . American Airlines also has very generous programs in place for additional pay for their pilots. As a flight attendant for TWA it was an honor. While you can travel for free within the 50 U.S. states, any international . TWA all the way !!! Compensation does not impact the placement of cards in content. The ex-TWA pilots wanted a court to rule that their union had failed to honor its duty to represent them, and American was part of the suit because the airline, the pilots argued, was part of collusion to undermine them. The estimated base pay is $10,202 per month. The most important aspect to think about is the FAA's mandatory retirement age of 65. Pilots are different. But instead all TWA employees were treated like rubbish if they even had a job at all! Other pilots were expected to drop to reserve status. To David Housewright, youve got your fathers aircraft mixed up. However they received special job opportunities at the ex-TWA St. Louis base, but those were foreclosed as part of its bankruptcy (and the St. Louis hub itself was later closed). I dont understand the problem American was very good to us. The average annual salary for a pilot at WestJet Airlines is $92,000. It's a mid contract raise outside of Section 6 negotiations. I don't include all US credit card offers available on this site. The average annual salary for a pilot at American Airlines is $128,450. In the 11 years since the merger with US Airways, those pilots have been immobilized by the continuing seniority conflict and generally unable to upgrade by moving from the Phoenix base. All Rights Reserved. The two airlines merged in 2010, and pilots . While it can vary between airlines, they are expected to have a minimum of 1,500 hours of flying experience. "American Airlines' number of pilots from 2013 to 2021*." The ideal entry-level account for individual users. I know one can always use 3XP, but the only official-looking list I could find on AApilots was a pre sli list. Frozen defined benefit plan for legacy AA pilots, Profit sharing announced to start immediately for 2016 and paid in early 2017Mandatory Retirements (Based on pilots turning 65 in the given year). In about 1,000 cases, it placed east pilots behind west pilots with a decade less experience. The most experience Captains can expect to make north of $291,500 while those pilots just starting out can expect to average $106,000. This includes cash bonuses, profit sharing, and more. Airlines typically extend this perk to family members as well based on seniority and other factors. Weve compiled the information to include average pay, beginner pay, and the pay for the most experienced pilots. This website is not a forum site and you may not submit your opinions here. 5 0 obj The average annual salary for a pilot at Frontier Airlines is $114,000. American Airlines PAFCA Seniority List January 15, 2020 Page 1 of 14. These numbers have likely increased since then based on things that have changed in the market so well take a closer look at more updated numbers in the next section when we look at each airline specifically. There are Captains nearing retirement age who earn $350,000 to $400,000. MLS Crew Chief Seniority List, click here. The most experienced pilots (top 10%) can expect to make an average of $219,000 annually while beginners can expect to average around $66,100 per year. In the end, the rise and fall of TWA (and Pan American) reflect in some small way the rise and fall of the country that gave birth to them. TWA employees got screwed. Factors like inflation, an increase in travel demand, and an all around shortage of labor have had an impact on a large section of the economy. The pilot's union announced Wednesday that a three-member arbitration panel has established a merged seniority list, which is final and binding. While official salary and pay information from the last year or so has not been released officially, the demand for pilots has increased significantly. The list mergers were weighted 15 percent on longevity, and 85 percent on class of craft (Current seat, equipment type, and career expectations prior to merger). Seniority is everything as an airline pilot. It should be Industry wide that your DOH or seniority is the way to integrate within the merged group period. One reason a pilot might skip an upgrade is to remain in the city they are currently based. Go to the following link: Seniority List You will need to log in to your JetNet account. Banner advertising, in contrast, is paid for by advertisers (we do not directly control the banner advertising on this blog). MTS Seniority List, click here. The most experienced pilots at Hawaiian can expect to earn $294,000 annually, making this one of the highest paying airlines while also having many of their flights cover some truly beautiful locations. Register in seconds and access exclusive features. By logging into your account, you agree to our. x]7GP^lO?R . H\b247L?W1v'7}uo={z28!nZ_u'w|wH1hI1/o That's partly due to the fact that airlines have historically recruited from the U.S. military, which tend to have white pilots. Irving, TX 75063 Envoy.News@aa.com Phone: 972-374-5200 Fax: 817-967-3816 {d*,f|H=4^t;wsg Y'E?05+Zmt6+tv!BE5". The pilot employed the longest has the highest seniority, while the newest-hired pilot is lowest on the seniority list. Current and former pilots at Alaskan Airlines also report a generous profit sharing and bonus program that in some years paid as much as $10,000. You may opt-out by. The law which was passed because of the outrage over the seniority merger actions in 2001 is worthless to the former TWA employees and used to club them over the head again by the USAir/AmericaWest employees in 2015. Pilots within the same new hire. United Airlines 1985: Forced by mgmt to strike over B-Scale pay rates and the company attempt to break UAL ALPA. American Airlines' number of pilots from 2013 to 2021* [Graph]. (1) The TWA pilots won their case against the Air Line Pilots Association for DFR. The greater your seniority, the greater your salary. God I miss my airline !! The advanced chronological age and high longevity of many east pilots, when compared to both the west pilots and the AA pilots, translates into an equity that has been recognized in many prior {seniority list} integrations, the panel said, including the Delta/Northwest integration. Airlines operate on a seniority-based system, where the pilot employed the longest is the highest on the pilot seniority list and the most newly-hired pilot is lowest. The average annual salary for a pilot at Air Canada Airlines is $109,900 (we converted these figures to US Dollars for comparison purposes). Are you interested in testing our business solutions? HXpY)Qt-4kktGaB&cX)DqVXHY-0EU?B8p]| pRz4\Vu;I#V I'm sure this has been answered somewhere on here before, but I couldn't find it in a quick search. Union TWA ALPA?

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